MSU Extension MI Ag Ideas to Grow With

- Well, good morning, everyone. We're slowly filling up the room here. We've still got a couple of minutes left before we're gonna start. So right at the top of the hour we'll go ahead with our introductions. And for those of you who are already on, I'm gonna flip to a different screen here. This might help for those of you who are new to Zoom or just had issues in the past you can kind of read through this. This will give you a little bit of instruction as to some of the functionality for Zoom and how you can get things done. And I'll be talking about it a little bit, but you can stare at this while we're waiting. All right. Well, I have nine o'clock on my clock, so we're gonna go ahead and get started. Welcome everyone to the, MI Ag Ideas Conference. This is your first time joining us this week, welcome. we'll have a few details for you to kind of get you situated. My name is Eric Anderson. I'm a field crops educator based out of St. Joseph County and covering the Southwest and South Central portion of the state. I'll be your moderator, your host for today. It's my pleasure to welcome you to the water management track for this morning and afternoon in this session draining wet spots in the field or draining the entire field. We'll hear from Dr. Ehsan Ghane. Please note this session is being recorded and session recordings will be shared in a few weeks or so This session is eligible for RUP and CCA credits. If you're interested in receiving credits, please ensure that your name is in the Zoom including your first and last name. If your full name does not appear, and I know that you can't see what that looks like, but if you've had issues before, you know what I'm talking about, but if your full name does not appear, I will be sending you a private chat sometime early on in the session here asking for your full name. So please monitor the chat box. This is how we'll verify, who has attended the sessions. So we can hand that off to MDR. Please also note that participants must be on for the entire session to get credits. It's an all or nothing thing. It's not a sliding scale. And at the conclusion of the session, I'll share some details about how you can apply for those credits. So before we get started, I'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsors who are shown on the screen. Due to their generous support, we're able to offer this event at no charge to you folks. So thanks to all of them for that. We're also able to offer a college scholarship opportunity because of their sponsorship. Please check out the website that's located on the screen here, if you're interested. And I know you're probably not gonna have enough time to even write that down. Little trick for those of you who are on computer. If you just do a print screen, this is what I do when I'm trying to take notes when I'm watching something and then just copy that into a Word Document or something on your computer. Or you can take your phone and just take pictures of the screens as they come up. But if you are interested in that, just go ahead and put something into the Q and A, and then I can also take this and copy it into the chat box. And then from there, you'd be able to copy it at any time during the presentation today. I'm gonna stop sharing this screen. I've got a short video that we'd like to share with you. I'm gonna go ahead and queue that up here quick. All right. So where is that screen? There we go. Caring for crops and animals creates a unique stress and a pressure that can be hard on farmers and agribusiness professionals, caring for one's own health and wellness in this high stress profession is often overlooked, but is just as critical as caring for the farm business. Whether these stresses come from a financial issue or stresses of everyday life, MSU Extension can help. And one of the people that MSU is hired to specifically deal with farm stress. His name is Eric Karbowski. He's been with us for almost a couple of years now. And he's going to share with you a bit about some of the resources that we have available. - Hi, my name's Eric Karbowski. I'm a behavioral health educator with MSU Extension that focuses on farm stress with your farm stress tip. What is farm stress, and how can you help? Recognizing the high levels of stress affecting America's farmers and ranchers, the USDA's cooperative extension system, farm credit American farm Bureau Federation, and National Farmers Union have partnered in an online course for individuals to understand sources of stress, learn the warning signs of stress and suicide, identify effective communication strategies, reduce stigma related to mental health and connect people with resources. Through this free course brings together knowledge of agricultural conditions and evidence-based approaches and behavioral health to help people recognize the signs of stress and better equipped farmers and the agricultural community with tools and resources to help in the time of need. This course has been designed to provide an opportunity to interactively learn about farm stress and how to help others manage stress. Through this partnership, Michigan State University Extension, and the University of Illinois Extension focused on creating, engaging content, through self paced activities, voiceover slide presentations, and downloadable resources. For more information about the rural resilience training, you can access the MSU Extension farm stress website under rule resilience training. There, they will give you the information to sign up and begin your journey on learning these invaluable tools and resources. Thank you. And know that there are a number of people that are working very hard behind the scenes to support you as you support us, have a great day. - All right. So if you'd like to hear more about farm stress, please join us tomorrow, Friday at 11 o'clock, there's a session called Mending the Stress Fence. You can find that Zoom link and passcode on the final schedule that was emailed to you. All right. So with that, I'm going to introduce Dr. Ehsan Ghane. He is with our agriculture and biological education units on campus. And he's gonna talk to you today about the importance of drainage. So Ehsan, go ahead and take it away. - [Ehsan] Eric, can you turn on the video? - [Eric] Are you able to share your screen yet? - [Ehsan] Can you turn on my video? The one with the camera? - [Eric] You're not able to? - [Ehsan] No, it says... I think now you've set it off. Excellent. Good morning, everybody. My name is Ehsan Ghane, and when I'm talking about drainage, I know with this frozen ground and this snow, not a lot of changes happening, but soon it will, God willing. Okay. So the topic is drainage wet spots in a field. This is a photo from Minnesota. You can see a wet spot in the field. Of course, the size it varies it's site-specific. There was a flooding event there and you can see lots of water and that actually caused crop damage in Minnesota. So before we get into some of the details I wanna explain subsurface drainage layout's. There are different layouts of drainage systems. There's a parallel system, you can see these are the laterals, that's the main, they are parallel and they just basically covered the whole field. You can see here, this is joining the whole farm. These help create a uniform crop yield because you got laterals everywhere. And other sub branch of the pattern is the herringbone. Basically, if if you are on a more sloping land then these harringtonines will come into play, but it is the same as a parallel system. And finally, there's this layout called targeted drainage. So you see here, I got the wet spot water ponding here, and then I got another ponding spot here. So the targeted basically goes in to those wet spots. So the targeted drainage is the oldest one historically. So back a hundred years ago when they actually started this, when drainage came to America, Geneva, New York was the first place that they installed clay tile. They brought the clay tile on the ships from Europe, from Ireland, and then they had to dig it with hands back then. So imagine it took years depending on how long it would be. It could take one to three years. So historically it makes sense, right? Because it takes so much time. I think doing something like this will take them 20 years or 10 years, it just won't be possible. So back then they will just go to these lower spots and then they will join the low spot. So this is the targeted one. This is something we're gonna be talking about more today, the targeted one, because the targeted are gonna be targeted to the wet spots. And then this one is the one that's gonna drain the whole field. So I'll explain some of these later. So now that we know these drainage layouts and that the targeted drainage is good for wet spots, I wanna talk a little bit about the water components on the farm. What are these water components? So there's a precipitation component. Rain is coming down or snow. There's a transpiration where the water takes up water, and then it transpires. And then there's evaporation from the ground surface or the leaves of the crop. Some of the rain that's comes in the precipitation, it interest rates, the soil, and then some of it, depending on different conditions is going to just be this component is surface runoff that moves on the surface. On the ground, you got some of the water table here, deeper correlation, some of it goes down. But this is a very minor component. Typically when you have a restrictive layer at some depth, because there is to give you layer is gonna slow down water movement a lot. There's capillary rise, so if you have water table here, water through capillary rise, depending on your soil, it's gonna bring some of the water up to the roots zone too. And then there's lateral seepage, meaning that this water here is gonna move in this direction now. And then the most the one that we're interested in and you're interested in is the one that's related to the pipe, right? So these are the laterals, that's the outlet, this is the drainage discharge or drainage water. So that drainage discharge is a very important one part of this. By the way, this is the runaway cow. He's wanted in six States. So call 911 if you see him, this is what he looks like. Let's try this again. So there's a question here. I don't know. There is no work. So the question, I'm just gonna have to give this question. I don't know, five or four (indistinct) out. It worked before I started sharing my screen. So the question is, what causes surface runoff. It was actually a poll, it's a shame.. Let me try that again. It's not a big deal if it does not work. I will just, okay. So here's the question. When does surface runoff occur? So see, there's two option you could answer this. So Eric, maybe you can actually test this to see if it's working. Maybe Eric, you can send... use one of those and then but I can wait a few minutes or so to see. So the first option that you can try this is the first one. It says you go to pollev.com/sweetfield375. That's one way you can enter, the other one is that you just text, SWEETFIELD375 to this number, once you join, then you hit A, B, C, D, or E. It should work. How about I tested myself actually. Okay, so it's working. The numbers are changing. So that's evidence that this thing is working. So when does surface runoff occur? The first option is rainfall. So option A is rainfall rate is greater than the soils infiltration rate. Option B it rains on a saturated soil. By that, I mean, that it's saturated, meaning that the water table is at the soil surface. So it's almost ponding, right? So that's option B and then C , it rains on a frozen ground like outside today. And D is all of the above. I'll give it a few more seconds. I'll try this myself. I have not tried this on my phone. - [Eric] I use the Poll Everywhere app and it worked. - I haven't tried, I tried the web page, but I haven't tried the texting. So I'm gonna see how this thing works. Okay. So I did the none of the above. I just wanted to make sure it's working. It's showing 91%. I wish it was showing numbers in there, so, okay. Well, so the answer I'm gonna keep moving. So the answer is correct, it's all of the above. So if rainfall comes down and that rate of rainfall is so intense, it's a heavy rain, it's greater than the soil infiltration, and it's gonna create surface on off too. If that's soil is saturated what was in the surface, it doesn't matter how intense the rain is. If it's even a light rain or it's still gonna create it and see if it rains on say, ground is frozen, then infiltration it no longer exists. So D is the right answer. I got the wrong one. So now we know what conditions are needed to make the surface runoff can occur, so how to drain these wet spots. So I talk about this targeted training, where you target those wet spots, that water is ponding, and it could be that surface runoff, It could be... let me get the laser out, So I get the laser out, so maybe there's a small watershed here. Water is running on the surface. It gets in here. Then water is at the surface, imagine the option B soil is saturated this water can't go in. So it creates a ponding. And that's surface runoff, I mean, in this case, it's not really moving, it's just surrounded because this is a low spot in the field. Or it rains so fast that water can't infiltrate and then it creates a ponding. So in either case that I showed in the previous slide you answered is that this, it creates a pounding, that's a problem. It's gonna damage the crop. So this is one where you go about that. The other way is a blind inlet. I would have asked if you've heard about this, but in this webinar, I can't really interact. But a blind inlet, this is a conservation practice, conservation drainage practice where you can actually help with that. So there's two ways, basically. Method one, if you want to do any wet spot, you use targeted drainage, where you got actually laterals, periphery tile, and then you got a main moving water away. And of course, these days machinery do those. So it's a lot faster. The other way is that you have a blind inlet, the blind inlet can go in these areas, the wet spots and take the water away. There's two ways. So let's talk a little bit about this target subsurface drainage so where can I use this target subsurface drainage? That's the question. So if the wet spots and it's surrounding soil, let's say these areas that I'm having with the laser. So if the wet spot and the soil here it's a poorly drained soil, And the source of the excess water is the naturally shallow water table. Like I said, so if the water table is naturally shallow in some parts, and you know what I'm talking about when in some areas where there is a shallow because of the location and the soil, in that case, you're gonna need to remove water from the soil profile. So from this area. So again, if this wet spot... if this soil is poorly drained and this water table is naturally high, I'm gonna need to put perforated drain pipes in the ground to lower the water in the profile. So that's where you would use these targeted subsurface drainage. So you may be wondering how do I find out this poorly-drained? So I'll show this to you later. I'm gonna show you, there's an interactive tool that would give you an idea. Basically this tool will give you an idea if you have a poorly-drained soil or not, I'll show it to you later, but remember that when you want to use targeted drainage because the pipes are on the ground, you wanna use it when their soil has poor drainage by itself. So by that poorly drained, it means that the ability of the soil to move or transmit water inside the pores is very slow. Just like heavy clay soil, very simple example. And then the natural water level is high so you need to put the tile down in the ground. So let's see when this blind inlet is needed. This is another way of going about those wet spots that I showed you. So this is a photo of a blind inlet. So a blind inlet, just imagine the previous slide where the wet spot was, but in this case, the wet spot and the soil around it, like let's say this area and the soil around it in this vicinity, this soil has to be a well-drained soil to be able to use this blind inlet. And the source of water is surface runoff. Meaning that water comes down on the surface where the laser is and this water to some reason, like I explained the reasons for creation of surface, now this water just moves, moves down, down, down, and then it comes into this wet spot, like a small depression area in the field. And the soil has good drainage. So water can go through the soil because the soil has good permeability. That's why it's a well-drained soil. So in this case, I'm gonna put one of these blind inlets in there. I'll show you the details of what it means. So remember there's a difference. So now, you know why I explain surface runoff in the poll before. So water comes down on the surface, it moves. So the conditions will create the surface runoff. Either rainfall is too much, there is a depression, some water moves down, it comes in this spot. And in this case, you need to move the water, remove the water from the soil surface. So this is another photo. Basically this blind inlets replace surface inlets. You probably heard them. They also call them open inlets too. They're the same thing. Surface inlets and open inlets are the same. Basically they're a pipe. You can see a pipe sticking out of the ground. It's got holes in it. And then if you could see on the ground, you will see that it just plugs into one of those drain pipes or the tile. You can see here on the left, see all of that water. This is that surface runoff moving here and then it comes in this spot. And then water can't just leave here because it's a depression area in the field. Water just remains there and just hurts the crop. So that's a wet spot and it's the same thing on the right too, except it's just dried up. So that lining that is a replacement of that. So I'm showing you the photo again. This surface inlets are actually not conservation in good practice because they really move a lot of phosphorous and they just move lots of phosphorus and that causes problems with water quality. So surface inlet gets converted into a blind inlet. That's the purpose of the blind inlet. The blind inlet is basically one of the purposes that it would replace the surface inlets because surface inlets get poor water quality, they're a problem. But these help with the water quality, they reduce phosphorous loss. So just briefly quickly, what do they look like? Basically, you got a trench. The total height of this trench is a minimum of one and a half feet. Then you have non geotextile material at the bottom, then you put a coarse material on top. Then you can close this with the non geotextile fabric. Then you put sand on top. That sand is key. This is the most important one. The sand acts as a filter, filtering the phosphorous that's attached to the soil. So it actually like a filtering of the soil. They don't want the soil to go down. So in the surface inlets, soil goes in that's bad. Here, the soil gets filtered with this sand layer. It's typically core sand, and it has to have a minimum of one foot taps from here to here. When the water enters these perforated pipes that are underground in that depression area, they get connected. So there's two ways that water can get moved away from this depression area, from the blind inlet. There's one way is that you will connect this depression area to an existing drain that's moving. Imagine that wet spot targeted draining there was one single part that was moving towards the outlet. So if you have one of those, I mean, this is out of scale. So it's not really that's... this could be several feet away, but something in there close by that you would just tap in and that would move the waterway. Or if you don't have one of these existing drain pipes, this is actually part of a drainage system, though, if you don't have one of those, then you just have to curve this like this. You would just have to move it out to the outlet. It's hard to write with the mouse. So these are two ways you move the water away. So what would you consider for the blind inlet? So these are just really quick notes. The watershed draining into that depression area shouldn't be greater than 20 acres, remember that? Soil erosion should be small. If erosion is pretty bad, depending on the management of the field, then imagine that part of the top of the sand layer that's gonna be just filled with sediments. And that would just quickly reduce the lifetime of the system. So because the sediment is gonna clog that filtering sand layer, and it's gonna reduce the lifespan. And that's soil erosion has to be small. And also that watershed that's flowing in. By the watershed I mean that, so let's say if this is the depression area, this is gonna be say the watershed that's flows water surface runoff flows into it like this. It means that this is the high elevation. This line, the outer line is the higher elevation means that here is lower elevation. So water moves in this direction. That's what I mean by that watershed draining. So this has to be less than 20 acres. So one of the benefits of the blind inlets is you can just use your tractor, your farm machinery, you can have a field operations go over this. Doesn't really interfere. I actually had a photo with crops growing in it. I don't know if I put it in there, I hope I did. If I didn't put the photo in the slides, I have a photo with the crops growing in that. So you see, you can just go on it with your tractor. So one other benefit is that it uses erosion, basically that sediment you have less sediment loss or erosion. And also the water quality part of it is that's phosphorus that's attached to the soil is called particulates. So you use a lot of that compared to the surface inlets, opening inlets, they lose lots of phosphorous. That's the phosphorus is attached to this soil. And when you lose the soil, you lose actually you lose phosphorous and also your healthy, good quality soil. And that's a loss too, in terms of the health of the soil. There's other alternatives that you can do this research. They've done some field experiments where they, instead of this course material like a limestone, instead of that, they've actually put steel slag down here. Let me use (faintly speaking). Here. And then they actually found that they can actually reduce some of the phosphorus that's in solution in dissolved form. So that's on there what can they actually prove that. In other way, they've actually proved that in another state is that instead of that coarse material, they put woodchips, so then when they put woodchips the nitrate can get removed too. So whichever one you wanna use, or you just wanna use the coarse material, the coarse material, they will help you with the phosphorus that's attached to the soil because of the filtering properties of the sand. The steel slag, If you do that one in addition to taking that particulate phosphorous out, you're gonna get some of the dissolved phosphorus out too additional water quality benefits. And then let's say you don't use the steel slag you use a woodchips, then you can get nitrogen out. So this depends on where you are. In the Mississippi River watershed, like if you're in a Southern Minnesota or Iowa, they really are... they care about the nitrogen because that leads to the hypoxic zone in Northern Gulf of Mexico. So they would be interested in the woodchips. Here in Michigan, we're more interested in more inches, and I'm not saying only interested, but more emphasis in phosphorus here in Michigan, as you know, it causes (indistinct) algal blooms so that these are the alternatives to the course material that you can use. - [Eric] Ehsan, you might answer this later but a quick question, as far as the blind inlets, how large, which grabs to square feet is a typical blind inlet. And does it depend on local topography? - Yes, that's a good question. So let me erase this. So this one, I'm gonna use the pen, so this, remember I said that watershed, so I raised the watershed. So, you know what I'm talking about when I'm saying watershed draining into the depression, depression is a small spot, but then the watershed that has surfaced on enough moving towards that, that has to be maximum of 20 acres based on practical experience. It's not like a rigid number, plus, or minus maybe one or two acres, but approximately that's as large as you wanna go. And with that size depending on the rates of surface runoff, there's engineers in Ohio, they've developed like an Excel spreadsheet where you actually can come up with that, but this could be as large as 50 by 50 feet. So to answer that question, that's an excellent question. This is for this area, depression area, not talking about the watershed, this goes back to this, why I'm sharing a lot of lines, but this one would be as large as this, but it could be as small as like five by five or four by four feet, depending on the watershed area, this, and depending on how much surface run off you're getting. The surface runoff depends on your soil management, the amount of residue you have, your soil, so that's a soil as part of it, but those things come together to determine how large it could be. - [Eric] Okay, thanks for that. One more question. Can you mix woodchips and steel slag? - Let me, so this is a question for this slide. So a question is that, can you mix this, this line stuff is pretty cool. So can you mix this one with this one and then put it down in, yes, see the arrows? Can you put, I didn't enjoy this word but the, Oh, I've do it wrong. The question is, can we mix the woodchip the answer to that question is actually, yes. This one, now this is better. So can you do this and then put it in the coarse? The answer is yes, but there's a catch. The steel, depending on the amount of phosphorus, depending on dissolved phosphorus that's coming in from above, right? Let's say I'm in a system where I've got lots of this dissolved phosphorus coming from the surface. Let's say the salt is phosphorous, and the surface is very high. I've got phosphorus stratification. So the phosphorus on the surface is very high. And then I had a surface broadcast, or let's say manure, I'm just making an example. Then the phosphorus, when the runoff occurs that phosphorous in the surface inlet is gonna be high. So then this steel slag, the way steel slag takes out the phosphorus is that it attaches, it takes the phosphorus and the fastest attaches to the surface of the steel slag. So imagine that. So imagine my fist, you probably see this. So imagine if I have phosphorus attached to this, soon, the surface will be filled. So I can only put so many fingers on this, right? I can't put a million fingers in there. There's only so many space on here I can put. So the problem with that is that it depends if you can mix them yes sure you can, but depending on how much phosphorous is coming in, the lifetime of the steel slag may end. For example, it may be like, depending on, it could be like four or five years, maybe the steel slag ends and then the steel slag can't take more phosphorus. Actually would be bad after the five years or so. Whenever it gets field after that it's bad because it's not going to help anything. It's just phosphorus is just gonna go through the system and now the dissolved one. But then the woodchip is gonna work. But because we've done some research on this, we know these woodchips can work up to 15 or 20 years. So the lifetime of this one typically is higher than the steel slag. So yes, the answer is yes, you can mix them, but let's say another scenario, your soil surface, you have a system where your surface has less dissolved phosphorus. Then the steel slag has more time to get those phosphorus attached to it. So then these two, the lifetime between these two, maybe about the same. So the bottom line to decide is that the lifetime of these two, because if one of them just lifetime ends like this like ends, you wanna have to go in and take that out, but then your wood chip is gonna continue working because they're mixed, right? So it's a logistics issue because then you have to go in and take it out. But generally on surface runoff, this particular part is a very important part because that's attached to this soil and it's good healthy soil that could go down. But yes, you can combine those two. That's a very good question. Excellent question. So maintenance. When the sediment and residue build up over the sand layer, please remove that. What I mean is that let's say the surface runoff occurs, right? Because surface runoff is gone is gonna move to this area. Then water is just going to go down. But the field layer is gonna keep the sediment and sediment everything on top. So this could get fields with lots of sediments quickly, depending on how much erosion you have. That's why we say the system should have less erosion. So if you do see that, then you will have to remove that because if you remove them, then it's gonna perform better. That water is gonna infiltrate quicker with these blind inlets. And one of the other things you have to remember with maintenance that replace this sand layer filter when it is clogged. And you would be able to notice that if this system doesn't really function as it did earlier, you'll see it's just gonna slow down because slowly the whole layer from here to here is just gonna slowly get clogged. Because the sand has bigger particles and then the sediments that's coming in is gonna fill in into those voids. So over time you will see that it could actually slow down and you will have to replace that. But you may be wondering, okay, how long should I expect this to work? The lifespan, life expectancy. So it depends on the sediment on the farm, but it should work up to 10 years. Let's say you got tillage and you've got social disturbance, that would actually promote that soil moving on the surface and it's gonna increase erosion, and that's gonna decrease the lifespan 'cause there's soil that's loose on the surface because there's been tillage. On the other hand, let's say you got reduced tillage, you got cover crops, you got a manure application and you're building organic matter. You got diverse rotations. Like I said, cover crop. That's gonna improve the soil health. Then surface runoff with these practices will actually get reduced. And that will reduce erosion, that's gonna increase the lifespan. So these are the two different general, I would say things that you would consider but the lifespan of this, you would be able to notice how long it can work depending on his performance. If it's moving that water away, you can observe that. And then when it's time, you will have to replace the layer on the top, the sand layer, you don't have to replace the pipes or the coarse because... so one thing I forgot to mention, the purpose of this coarse layer here is to keep those pipes from crushing. It's like, imagine it's like bricks on your house. So you lay strong, coarse limestone material, big ones around this and underneath around it. So then if you are driving over it, that keeps it from that compaction from all sides. So it's a structural thing, but you don't have to replace that part. What I'm saying here is that this sand layer, that the one that I mentioned, it should be minimum one foot. That's where it needs to be taken out because that's your filter material. That's the main mechanism of removing that particular phosphorus. - [Eric] Ehsan, we've got a few minutes left and we've got a few questions. So would you like me to hold on to those until you're done? - Yes. So when to use each one, I mentioned it. Briefly summarizing this one on the right side, I mentioned the soil is poorly drained. It's got, water table is high. This one his soil is well drained but you got the ponding area and that's the differences mainly, I explained that. And so this is a tool that will help you. Maybe let's answer some of the questions then I will. Because the tool website is here. So I invite you to check this out. This tool will show you what type of soil you have. If you got a poorly drained soil, you got a well-drained soil, we'll tell you what... We'll give you an idea of which ones you have. I can show it to you after I answered the questions because my presentation is finished. - [Eric] Okay. A couple of them might be pretty quick. One is if the wet spot is surrounded by a well-drained soil, can the drain just dead end several hundred feet from the wet area? - So if the wet sport is surrounded by well-drained soil. Can you explain the second part? So the wet spot is surrounded by... - [Eric] So if you've got a fairly well-drained soil throughout a field, but you've got one wet spot, can you just take that drainage and take the water away from the wet spot, into the well-drained area and then just have a dead end? - Oh, so have the drain, there then drain... so if I understood this question right is that the soil has good well drainage, right? It's a well-drained soil. It moves water through quickly. It's a depression. If you would use a pipe drain pipe, like a perforated tile, then you move to move the water away into some other part of the field as well, and then you would just leave it there without having an outlet. - [Eric] I believe so. - Yeah, I think that's a question. I have not heard of that, but I would not do that. Because water would move, water has to actually leave from that. Even if the soil is well drained... let's say you got a wet spot and then you move the water away. If the soil is still well-drained in the other part, even if it's percolate slowly out, that's probably gonna cause problem. And then there's other things about the topography of the landscape water is gonna have to move down hill. I would say no to that, I would say that drain run it out to the outlet, to the ditch or some sort some place that there's a pipe, it can't do it, or a County main or something that can actually move the water quickly out. Because if you don't do that draining of the main problem is that draining of that wet spot would be very slow if you just let the water not go out into a ditch. Next question. - [Eric] Another question, are there any other course materials that you've been experimenting with? - No. Steel slag and woodchips. And just basically the limestone? No, not more than those. If you have other ideas of more then please put it in the Q and A. I'd be happy to look into it. - [Eric] One last one. Blind inlet layers, once slag or woodchips are exhausted, what do you do with the waste when you need to rebuild as it hazardous or not due to concentrating element P. - No, it's not hazardous. It's gonna have lots of phosphorus attached to the phosphorus binding material. There's like, let's say, like, for example, it's gonna have lots of it, but it's not like a hazard. It has lots of phosphorous. There is a way you can actually release it. It's kind of expensive. Researchers in Indiana, they're working on a simple way that they can actually help it release the phosphorus in the field. I'm not saying release it when it's reporting down and it's just gonna wash away within, but you would actually provide the water in that small area then you would go to the outlet, you would capture that water that's coming out. That's gonna have lots of high phosphorous. But that's possible with adjusting the pH and adding certain chemicals. They're doing that. But last time I talked to the researcher, they said it costs March and it's costly now, but in the future, we were hoping that would be cheaper. That's the way you can actually release it in the field. If not, if too expensive, you will take it out, and then you would have to get rid of it. Even if you take it out, there's ways that you can really take the phosphorus out of it when you take it out. So there's research going on to help with some of those parts that how you would remove it if you take it out or in place. Both are possible. - [Eric] Good questions? So why don't we, I've got one more comment from the Q and A that I'll mention in a bit, but before I do that, let me go ahead and kind of wrap up the logistics for the meeting today for everyone. So for those of you who are planning on joining our next session, which starts at 10 o'clock again, if this is your first day here, I am actually going to be ending the session, ending the meeting for everyone. And so to rejoin at 10 o'clock, you'll just hit that same link that you use to get in here. It'll be the same passcode and everything. For those of you who would like to request a RUP credits or a CCA credits, that can all be done via a survey tool that we're using this week. And actually we'd like everyone to use it. So I'm gonna go ahead and paste that into the chat box right now. So if you have not had an opportunity to open the chat box you're not that familiar with it it's on the bottom part of your screen, there should be an icon that says chat. If you click on that, a box will pop up similar to the way it did for the Q and A. And in there, you'll find, I just put in there, it says survey link. For most people it's been working if you just click on that, it's a hot link. If you try that and nothing happens, then just go ahead and copy that URL, open another web browser and paste it in. That's actually the same link that we've used all week. And so for those of you who have done this earlier in the week, it's the same link. You'll just go into that survey. You'll select which session that you're wanting to give feedback on, which was the one for today. And that's really the main reason that we're sending out the surveys. We want feedback. We want you all to let us know how this week is going, how this Zoom thing is working for you. If it's working well, any areas that we can improve on. But then at the end of that survey, you'll have the opportunity to request a CCA and RUP credits, which is why I've been chatting with several of you who just have a single name that's appearing for us. So if you have not checked the chat box yet, go ahead and click that open. And if I have sent you something go ahead and respond right away so that we can get your full name I'm here, because we'll do a cross-reference. When we send this up to MDR, we'll do a cross-reference with the attendee log prove to MDR that you were on with us for the full time, and then everything will be good. So again go ahead and click on that. I'm going to close this session down in a couple of minutes. So in the next couple of minutes, go ahead and click on that. If you have any questions for Dr. Ghane, go ahead and type those in to the Q and A. We'll answer as many as we can right now live. And if we have a few that we can't get to I can send those to him and we can get those answers to you. So Ehsan just had one comment from Gretchen, she said, in New York, we use pea gravel for the coarse layer with good results targeted in one acre areas with a 40 inch water table. You're muted, but if you wanted to make a comment about that, feel free. Okay. Sorry, yes. Thank you. Yes, I've also heard about that pea gravel too. It is a coarse material then that can be used. Thank you for the comments. If anybody has any more comments, please type it in or email me. And the recording should be available, my Twitter account is available and my email is available. If you have any questions please join me at 11 for a controlled finished talk. I didn't have time to show the tool that will help you find out what type, if you've got a poorly drain or well drain. That tool, you can check it on your own. I showed you the link, it was on the screen, or I will briefly just show it at 11. Thank you. - [Eric] Okay, great. Thank you very much, Dr. Ghane. So as he mentioned that he'll be back on, we've got Dr. Younsuk Dong, who will be presenting at 10 o'clock. So please join us for that. But then Dr. Ghane will be back on at 11 o'clock. So if you come up with a question between now and then it just occurs to you feel free to join us back on at 11 o'clock and then we can ask those questions then. So again, I'm gonna close this session down in about 30 seconds or so. So if you have not had a chance to click on that survey link, please go ahead and do that. And we will see you back here at 10 o'clock.